並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%93%87%E9%9D%A0%E6%9C%89%E4%BA%8B%E5%97%8E/%E9%80%B1%E6%9C%AB%E8%81%8A%E8%81%8A%E5%A4%A9%E5%81%A5%E8%BA%AB%E6%88%BF%E7%9A%84%E7%A5%9E%E7%A7%98%E6%9A%97%E6%88%BF%E8%88%87%E9%99%AA%E5%90%83%E9%A3%AF%E6%95%99%E7%B7%B4-abvBWLu9Q-V/