並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/ep47-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E6%9C%83%E4%B8%8D%E6%9C%83%E4%B8%8D%E5%B0%8F%E5%BF%83%E8%A2%AB%E8%B2%B7%E8%B5%B0%E5%91%A2-%E5%BB%89%E5%83%B9%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC/id1587169597?i=1000559992384