並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep24-%E6%9B%BE%E5%8D%9A%E6%81%A9-%E4%BE%86%E5%A0%B4%E6%9C%89%E8%B6%A3%E7%9A%84%E6%BC%94%E8%AC%9B-%E6%8E%A2%E8%A8%8E%E9%9B%99%E6%A8%99%E7%A4%BE%E6%9C%83%E7%8F%BE%E8%B1%A1-%E7%9F%A5%E8%AD%98%E5%AE%87%E5%AE%99%E6%8E%A2%E9%9A%AA%E9%9A%8A%E4%B8%B2%E8%81%AF/id1579020830?i=1000553156031