並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%AA%AA%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B%E7%9A%84%E6%95%B8%E4%BD%8D%E7%9B%B4%E9%8A%B7%E5%A4%A7%E5%B8%AB/29-%E7%9B%B4%E9%8A%B7%E5%81%A5%E8%BA%AB%E6%88%BF%E6%95%99%E7%B7%B4%E8%BD%89%E5%9E%8B%E5%81%9A%E7%B6%B2%E8%B7%AF%E5%80%8B%E4%BA%BA%E5%93%81%E7%89%8C%E5%89%B5%E6%A5%AD%E5%8D%B1%E6%A9%9F%E5%B0%B1%E6%98%AF%E8%BD%89%E6%A9%9F-Mt1ZUTdsFuE/